My cousin belongs to a house church in western Iowa. Law Prof: I dont know if its just that I got old enough and wise enough to start seeing it or cynical and hardened as I got older, but after going through the 1980s and 1990s able to find what I thought were decent churches, for over a decade I havent to find a place that isnt abusive, heretical, led by a narcissist or all the the above. TS00: I dont see how you could get any further from the mark in your comment. The history of church offices is a bit more complicated. According to the conference website, they will be delivering world-class communicators, high-energy worship and awesome entertainment. Sounds like church, huh?! A pastor or shepherd is one who devotes themselves to the care of the flock which is placed under his control. Remove the plank so the splinter can be clearly seen. This in spite of the fact that our family was the friendly face that attracted many, the ones who were always approachable, in a way that the cool, distant pastor could not be. MacDonald gave Mark Driscoll $50,000? They should no longer be allowed to exempt themselves from the oversight which non-religious entities must abide by. I have purposely maintained my distance from my current pastor for that very reason. America needs more Vietnamese restaurants than New Calvinist church plants. Well said, both TS00 and SiteSeer. If you have questions, concerns, or encouragements for them, they would love to hear from you. Harvests former CFO, Fred Adams, now runs a sketchy consulting group that helps wealthy elite church insiders set up secret LLCs to buy church buildings so that the churches can then transfer wealth to them in the form of both monthly rentals instead of building equity for the members, while also authorizing the campuses to make major improvements and expansions that cost millions, which will then belong to the LLC owners, not the flock. 4107 N Steele Blvd, Fayetteville, AR, 72703, United States. Jenkins has produced many TV series and films. Truth (the Word) + The Spirit of Truth (Holy Spirit) = Revealed Truth. By the end of the first century there are already offices of bishop, priest, and deacon. That incident was only the tip of the iceberg. In some cases these elders may be greater in years of living faithfully rather than simply age. And if this instance is questionable, then all posts and claims are questionable and credibility goes out the window all because Dee knows best for everyone and will not allow discussion after making claims with no supporting evidence. The damage he has done is incalculable. . As for your dig at anonymous people, you are hoping to do the same thing. Announcements. Thrilled for both of them as they start their life together. In preparation for the milestone anniversary of 30 years, it seemed fitting to host all our campuses together for Good Friday and Easter Sunday at the Sears Centre Arena. What in the world is running through his mind that he wouldnt want the truth shouted from the rooftops to those whod been under Macs influence far and wide? Which direction you take religion or relationship determines whether you discover Truth or not. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. When people look back on the history of the American evangelical movement in the first years of the third millennium, I sure hope they will shake their heads and ask why we put up with this nonsense for so long. Turns out that he was looking to fulfill his succession plan all along, and was just cycling thru people until he found one that fit. Worst $12 I ever spent. Harvest Bible Chapel is a large evangelical organization with congregations across the metro Chicago area. James MacDonald was one the most well known mega church pastors in the U.S. until he was fired from Harvest Bible Chapel, the church he founded and pastored . Gods blessings to you. I understand your point and the historical information. I share this for all who, like me, are overcome with new sadness, pain and loss amidst the HBC, Willow, Catholic church, ECFA, SBC, GFA, etc. I had a churchgoer tell me once in a Bible Study to Lighten up Max. I can only imagine what was said as explanation, particularly as my spouse (still blindly loyal) remained much longer than I, until our children put up a united appeal to leave. It appears he has been a poser, a bully and a thug for a very long time. elastigirl: but ultimately it means people are brainwashed into being acquiescent, passive, accommodating, maintaining their silence. If all this was that important to the leaders they would have been apoplectic at what they witnessed from JM. A continual cycle without end. Because they have no conscience and no moral compass. What they all have in common is serving self interest, whereas the crux of the life and message of Jesus is that the way to life is to lay down self and serve others. "I'm going to make mistakes. and purportedly, eternity depends on each individual institution and the collective one. Restore him to ministry? Never to leave me alone! TX and is setting up his own consulting firm so he can go to thousands of churches setting up secret ways for enriching the head pastors. Amy Moore, Do you consider the primary reason for being asked to serve as an elder was that you were a strong donor since you say you did not meet Biblical qualifications for that office? That was all it was intended to be. Its nice to have a multimillionaire dad. I have to admit that Philippians 1 often comes to mind as I look at these mega-messes the American church is in. Held himself out as a model. ex HCA Staff: He is currently Director of Media at Harvest Bible Chapel in Chicago, where he directed the award-winning short film "The Ride" and is currently developing multiple feature films. Ken F (aka Tweed): I only point out that the historical evidence is not what we protestants want it to be. The problem with deception is that you dont know you are deceived because you are deceived. Many a victim of domestic or spiritual abuse might have been better protected by understanding this reality. One would think that 3 years with Jesus ought to be transformative, but the Gospels seem pretty clear that the Twelve were following Jesus at least in part in hope of high office in a future visible kingly reign over Israel. The Chosen is Different. That was 30 years ago and it proved to be true. Thats why Im asking LLS (and Ken/Tweed, if he wants) how do these worship men, not God structures ever have any mechanisms at all to keep from going wildly off the rails? I never thought I would say such a thing about a church plant but, these young reformers are more about planting reformed theology, rather than Gospel churches. If I read this right, Guidepost will stay quiet when the SBC gets upset? Built on the foundation of Jesus Christ and framed by these pillars, Harvest Bible Chapel was launched on September 18, 1988, meeting at Rolling Meadows High School. Harvest Bible Chapel looks forward to the future as we continue training up ministry leaders, pastors and church plants that seek to fulfill the Great Commission in Matthew 8:28. I can completely understand why Dee wouldnt want people here to be dragging stuff out and speculating about a teenage boy. So, as you imply, in their heart of hearts they dont really give a big hoot about reading the precious words in red, let alone the rest of Scripture. I can only imagine what it was like for children. They engineered the black funds and the worst of the financial abuse. You and the other TWW regulars feel like family. 3/2/2023 - 9:30am-11:30am. Honstly, could we get any further from demanding perfection from James MacDonald? It seems to me that there is a serious idolatry issue at HBC. Agreed. I mean, everyone thought Willow Creek was that church. God put you there, who are you to take yourself out? Weve drifted so far from the Truth, the whole Truth and nothing but the Truth, Im not sure the institutional church can find its way back. Thank you!!!! How many times must those facile a-historical Fundy myths be refuted before they are finally and definitively laid to rest? That sadness is so deep. They are crumbling under their current debt load that FRED saddled them with; still he brags. A lot of people still hurt. Certainly! Ive heard the thunder roll. Every man has his price, or a guy like me couldnt exist. With 17+ degree options, we have something for everyone. Robert Morris sits on the Board of Driscolls new church or at least he did Driscoll no longer lists Board members on his new website. Sadly, I have yet to see even one of these elders or executive staff members repent in a productive, redemptive manner. That someone who was on the point of dying took time to write these dreams down is remarkable in and of itself. dont do anything just because you want to (that would be selfish) but wait until you hear from God. Pre-1970 power (denominational competition for theological control of the Body of Christ), Post-1970 money (mega-madness begins, 6-figure salaries, limelight, mansions, jets). Dallas Jenkins (born July 25, 1975) is an American film and television director, writer and film producer. Sunday services, weekly small groups, other events all give meaning to peoples lonely lives, and the rest is mostly fluff. Retch, gag, and barf, it gets old, it really does. Instead, the whole thing was a Yes Men (and Im not talking about the performance artist group) operation for the aggrandizement of James McDonald. PRESBUTEROS = EPISKOPOS = POIMEN Rather, as all of these spiritually abusive situations demonstrate, the flock is likely to be deceived and preyed upon by wolves in sheeps clothing. Great! Begin your journey with the prayer. Notice how you need to be part of this first hand, and not from a distance like on the world wide web for even unbelievers to see. incur Gods wrath, All this, with the goal of getting me, my family and the Executive Elders removed ," MacDonald wrote. We use cookies to ensure that we give you the best experience on our website. Here are four things you should know about The Chosen: Photo courtesy: VidAngel. Their influence will spread exponentially once decentralized. Your actions are tell tale in what you believe regard God and Jesus his son. Behind him, an ancient city unfurled. At that time, very little about Dallas Jenkins' problematic theology and other unbiblical issues with The Chosen were publicly known. The images of Christs mother Mary witnessing her sons torture, the glances and faces of the cast Mel Gibson portrayed were (and frankly still are) made to elicit deep evil and were very frightening to see, and the utter agony of Christs pain was so graphic, I still cant erase it from my memory. So this notion of a pastor as single leader being completely made up well after the Bible was written, simply not biblical at all, purely cultural tradition, I think youd be safe to say that said book most certainly does not indicate that one assuming an unbiblical, made-up official office does not need to be heeded, but rather corrected, censured or even disciplined and thrown out of the church for their audacity and biblical ignorance. Then in great heresy he says Mormons have the same Jesus as evangelicals! I just wonder how much of my tithes went to support their gambling problem. You have my phone number,. He says he knows, "from the inside, some of these things that have come out in the public about pastors". There have been countless decisions made for Christ at Camp Harvest, along with the immeasurable life-transforming impact on countless students, men, women, and families. I initially read that as bought him years of support. The Chosen is an artistic retelling of biblical events and it never claims to be a replacement for Scripture nor an addition to the holy Word of God. We only saw the one tomb. Mel Gibsons Passion of the Christ is one of the most GRAPHIC and INTENSE and VIOLENT art films ever made. If leaders and led live like this, the details of polity scarcely matter. Thus, I try to insert IMO where applicable. IDK what the other XLT staffers and Elders are waiting for, but they will be judged if these wolves are allowed to set up new lairs due to their silence. Give them what they want in the present, and they wont care about the past. Wartburgers, perhaps they are coming to a church near you! Leila: he will be partnering with a music minister from another local church and they are starting a church service in a bar on Sunday evenings. Theyre showing their colors alright. A flock without herdsmen will quickly go astray. In destructive cults that pose as Christian megas, there is evidently an attitude of privilege and authority among those who call themselves elders that is simply nonexistent in the Bibleit seems anti-Christ, actually. Both the Rolling Meadows and Elgin Campuses started food drives for the community to gather and distribute resources during the pandemic. Yes, we must preserve the right to arm bears. There is no such thing as a single pastor leader role that even exists. Pastor James MacDonald, the founder Harvest Bible Chapel, a megachurch located in the surrounding Chicago area, has been fired as a leader of the church. Samuel Conner: Be imitators of God, as dearly loved children, and live a life of love, even as Christ loved us and gave Himself for us. Look what that got them. I think telling the truth is of much more value than creating or maintaining appearances. To me, this type of service is more authentic than so many of the others out there. Was it the mere correction of an error? No more circumcision. You also have no idea what else is happening. These execs like CFO Fred Adams and COO Scott Milholland going into church consulting are the most dangerous. I suspect that there is a world of difference between what we see in the NT and what we experience in our day, even in groups that try to adhere to the so-called Biblical model. And the Christians who took Bibles and Tracts into the theaters for a little Soul-Winning(TM) after the movie had softened up the marks. The Evangelical Bubble proclaimed it a Witnessing Tool (as if that was the only reason for anything) and then bought out so many showings a lot of the theaters had to discontinue group tickets. Greg Laurie, pastor and founder of the 15,000-member Harvest, announced the move in June. Like they are so far in and so much of their identity comes from being part of the group that the thought of just leaving would be like jumping off of a cliff? The church needs the wisdom of age coupled with the energy of youth young folks to speed things up a bit, old folks to slow it down when necessary. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IwSTe9uit48. Muslin, fka Dee Holmes: Driscolls board is down to him as President and director, Jimmy Evans and Randall Taylor (who I believe is an attorney). The posting of it on this website is unfortunate, as are many of the false rumors in the comments both here and on Twitter from anonymous people. and they have everyone scared spitless that if they vocalize their concerns about what is unethical in their church, & in their tribe, they will disappoint God, Many parents contacted the school about it, and it was one of the first of many, many issues that arose there. Law Prof: the posting of it on this website is unfortunate, as are many of the false rumors in the comments. That brings back a memory I havent thought about for years. Apparently DJ knew these things and witnessed these things, but did nothing about these things. Kids Night Out. A person who thinks they are qualified, is someone who may need to take some time to discern whether thats true. God will not, will not let you go. Or rather, a simulacrum of an ancient city. Exactly what were people afraid of? Thanks and God bless to all the TWW regulars! 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